DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

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jen78fl
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DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

Postby jen78fl » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:36 pm

Hi all. Well I have just started DMAE for my son. I gave him 1/2 of a 100 mg capsule yesterday and he was a little hyper, but not too much.. Then today I gave him a full capsule and he is pretty hyper and somewhat irritable. Does it just take a few days of giving it for them to get over the hyperactivity? I am hoping so because I think it will help him.. I appreciate any advice!

Jen

aisha
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Re: DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

Postby aisha » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:54 am

thanks for posting this jen , but doesnt the dmae supposed to produce an opposite effect i mean focus & attention instead of hyperactivity. please let me know coz i am also planning on giving it to kiddo. what makes u think it is helping him (hope it helps him ) did u try the choline yet. please keep us posted. thanks aisha

Kastania
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Re: DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

Postby Kastania » Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:58 am

I just wanted to add that we had a bad experience with DMAE. I first gave it to my daughter combined with phosphatidylserine and she was very irritable and started banging her head. Then I was advised to try it with choline instead, but the effect was the same - my daughter had a major meltdown. Finally, I tried taking plain DMAE myself - I took a third of a capsule and I felt awful for two days - nausea and headache. I just find that anytime I give my daughter supplements that mess with her brain/neurotransmitters, it backfires on us, so I leave well alone and just work on her gut.

jen78fl
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Re: DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

Postby jen78fl » Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:09 am

Thanks kastania.. I guess it is just so different for all kids.. Seems like some kids do great with the choline/dmae and others don't! Anyway my son was irritable yesterday after giving him the full capsule.. that passed and then he was just hyper.. THen he was awake in his room about 5 am this morning, Im pretty sure due to the DMAE...

Aisha, Im not sure if it would help or not but I did think I noticed more vocalizations, not words but sounds/babbling, when I gave him 1/2 a capsule... I may just keep giving him 1/2 because he did fine with that.. I am still waiting on the phosphatidylcholine to get here... I may just have to only give him a small amount of that also..

It sure would be nice if everything worked the same for all of our kids! lol

jen78fl
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Re: DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

Postby jen78fl » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:12 am

BTW, if your child tolerates MB12 shots well, should they be able to tolerate DMAE/choline too? I know that DMAE included methyl in the name so I thought he would be able to handle it ok... I dont know, just guessing here lol

CaringDad71
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Re: DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

Postby CaringDad71 » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:42 am

Hi Jen,

The answer is that it depends. Indeed, DMAE is a methyl donor and it can be a precursor to choline. If the child does not have a Cathecholamine O Methyl Transferase mutation (either COMT + or ++ sometimes called overmethylator), then theoretically that child might be able to tolerate more methyl donors. However, if the child is COMT + or ++, then he will grow irritable and have mood swings because of the fluctuating levels of dopamine. Choline is a precursor to acetylcholine which is a neurotransmitter important for learning and memory as well as muscle movement. Since you are combining DMAE and choline you are potentially raising acethylcholine. If the ratio of acetylcholine to dopamine gets out of wack, the child's muscles may become taut; you might notice the child twisting the neck to one side. MB12 can do this too i.e., cause higher acetylcholine levels at least initially.

Excess levels of acetylcholine are regulated by the enzyme acetylcholinesterase which causes the breakdown of acetylcholine. Although it is counter intuitive, a lack of acetylcholinesterase will result in a down-regulation of muscarinic receptors. Potentially this would have the unexpected outcome of high levels of acetylcholine, however with low levels of muscarinic (parasympathetic) receptors. It has been assumed that there is a lack of choline in autism. However, it may instead be a lack of acetylcholine muscarinic receptors. Muscarinic receptors are implicated in processing of cognitive functions, memory, problem solving, regulating pancreatic secretions as well as depressing glutamate release in both the prefrontal cortex and the temporal lobe.

It is important to consider all of the components of any supplement that you give to your children, as they may contain hidden sources of choline or other ingredients that may be a problem. Many transdermal delivery systems (topical delivery gels) contain lecithin as part of the delivery matrix. Lecithin is a source for choline. In addition soy lecithin in topical gel preparations may be a problem for individuals who are allergic to soy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylethanolamine

Just a quick reference. Hope that this helps!

tmargetis
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Re: DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

Postby tmargetis » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:29 pm

Jen,

I am sorry that you may have gotten some hyperactivity from the combo. I agree, I would wait on the Phospho and just give that for 5 days, nothing else and see. DMAE is tricky, our magic dose is only 100 mg 2x a day. That is why my doc reccomended only giving the 100 mg 1x a day for so long. Maybe a half capsule is what you need. For us, Carnosine works just as well now at 400 mg 1 x a day, than the reccomended 800 mg. I would like to see just what the DMAE/Phospho does for you. DMAE has such positive studies in the autism community for language, but like anything else, can cause hyperactivity. My child cannot tolerate any methyl b12 shots at all. I was skeptical of hyperactivity too on both Carnosine and DMAE, but was surprised when he tolerated it so well. We do great on DMG, awful on TMG. I agree, I wish all things would work the same, It would make our lives much easier. I do like that you may have seen some more vocalizations though. As an example, I started with a full cap of DMG and got hyperactivity. My doc said he always starts out with a half capsule for a while, working the dose up. When I went back and did this, he did fine with it, and he excells on 1 cap a day, but not more. I think with a lot of supplements it is the dosing that can make a difference too. I wish this combo would work as well for everyone else, as it has been our miracle :)

Keep us posted.

Tanya

jen78fl
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Re: DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

Postby jen78fl » Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:38 pm

Caringdad, thanks all the info.. All good to know!

Tanya, I think I will just do the phospho first or at least only give a 1/2 capsule of the DMAE now and not raise it anymore until I have given the phospho for awhile.. I am hoping that he will be able to tolerate the phospho.. Is it easy enough to measure out half of the liquid in the gelcap?

aisha
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Re: DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

Postby aisha » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:04 am

hi jen & tanya what brand od dmae r u guys using. aisha

jen78fl
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Re: DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

Postby jen78fl » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:46 am

Mine is twinlabs..

tmargetis
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Re: DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

Postby tmargetis » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:15 pm

Mine too.

Tanya

dabaxter
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Re: DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

Postby dabaxter » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:30 am

Have you had good luck with other Twinlabs products?
$5 off iherb.com. Use:REW815/$5 off pureformulas.com Use:RJNXCX

jen78fl
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Re: DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

Postby jen78fl » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:45 pm

I have a few different twinlabs products. Our DAN also recommended this brand

tmargetis
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Re: DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

Postby tmargetis » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:23 pm

I have used the magnesium and choline. My dan usually tells me when their is a cheap brand out there that works well.

Tanya

Kastania
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Re: DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

Postby Kastania » Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:13 am

Hi tmargetis

I have been following this and other posts you have written on and your child sounds very similar to the son of friends of mine. They are looking for a new DAN and I was wondering if you would be kind enough to supply me with the name of your doctor so I can pass it on to this family - I like the sound of your doctor and the way he is treating your son.

Thank you

tmargetis
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Re: DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

Postby tmargetis » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:11 pm

Kastania,

I am sending you a PM.

Tanya

Leo
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Re: DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

Postby Leo » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:52 pm

Interesting - we had super hypearactivity on supplementing Twin Lab Choline & Inositol
iHerbs Referral Code - ZHK716
$5 off order < $40,$10 off on orde > $40

FatherOf2
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Re: DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

Postby FatherOf2 » Fri Dec 26, 2014 12:31 pm

Are there any updates from those giving DMAE to their children? I just came across it by reading this article:
http://warddeanmd.com/acetylcholine-enhancement-galantamine-and-dmaes-cognitive-supportive-role/

Apparently DMAE is supposed to improve behaviors, but according to the reports here it doesn't. May be it is better start with a small dose like 1/4 of a 100mg capsule?

vivekmom
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Re: DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

Postby vivekmom » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:13 pm

We have had bad reactions to phospholipids/cdp choline, choline in super nu thera and to ndfplus/ndf. I am sure ndf plus/ndf increase acetylcholine among doing other things. For us, It was all pointing to excess acetylcholine symptoms, like flexing of neck muscles, irritability with some hyperactivity, burning or numbing or itching sensation ( I wouldn’t know what) in his fingers in hand/feet, violent twisting of his fingers and yes, lack of speech.
After reading on this board about inhibition of acetylcholine esterase enzyme, I figured out that this is one of our major problems. With some of the things that are inhibiting this enzyme, we have some history - with anaesthesia (took a long time than normal to wake up from anaesthesia) and with aluminium(microcytic/hypochromic anemia with iron deficiency). I made a list of things that inhibits this enzyme from the links given by listmates – pesticides, insecticide, herbicide, insect repellents, aluminium, thimerosal, MSG, nightshade vegetables, supplements made of night shade veg. like lycopene from tomatoes, tetanus toxoid, tetanus toxin from vaccines, general anaesthesia, epidural anaesthesia, curcuminoids and this list seems to grow.
We did the Serum cholinesterase test which showed the actual value to be in the lower half of the normal range. Even if we were in below low range, I do not know what could be done to raise it. Also, this test has limitations and is not a conclusive proof.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 8612003026 - Read that tyrosine could help to increase cholinesterase activity, but our experience with acetyl L tyrosine was otherwise. But he was sensitive to tyrosine too.
Naet has been huge for us and I convinced our practioner to test/treat him for sensitivity towards cholinesterase enzyme, choline, soy, lecithin, sunflower lecithin, phospholipids and for all those that inhibit this enzyme.
After these treatments, there were no reactions like twisting of fingers, irritation for ndf/ndf plus and last week, we added lipophos forte at 1.5 gms per day with no problem. We are seeing some subtle improvements in his oral motor movements with more new sounds and attempts to say words instead of babbling and better communication/memory.
I am not sure whether hypersensitivity to cholinesterase enzyme and inhibition of this enzyme are two different things or same thing with different names. For this reason, I am wary of anything that is found to inhibit cholinesterase as I have seen that test dose/exposure are not sufficient in finding out hypersensitivity.

guitarra28
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Re: DMAE/choline and hyperactivity...

Postby guitarra28 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:04 pm

I know this is an old post. In order to better know what supplements will be better for your kid, it is a good thing to know if your son is an undermethylator or overmethylator. For overmethylaors DMAE is recommenede it. A whole blood histamine level test can tell you if your son is over or under. Levels under 40, points to overmethylation. Levels over 70 points to undermethylation.


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