AutismWeb Forum

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/13/scien ... ef=general

I can't get this info out of my head. Makes so much sense. What do you all think? Find a healthy, super social, athletic kid and borrow some poo? I'm only partly kidding

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Jen
(mom of 3)

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Our DAN mentioned it long time ago, he said it is the most effective way of treatment. He also said that no phycician wanna do it any more as it is very very unpleasant procedure.

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Thank you
Monica

I also, am thinking about how effective this procedure would be. I am so tired of fighting clostridia - you just cannot get rid of it, it always comes back and it affects speech so much. I feel like I pound my daughter with anti-biotics/anti-bacterials/probiotics and so on to get it down - but if someone else's poo will get rid of it, I will do it, I don't care how revolting the procedure is.

Does your DAN know who is still doing this and can recommend? One bad experience to get a healthy gut is worth it to me. Think how many enemas some of us give, or nightly suppositories, the cramping, the pain, the very limited list of foods and for some colonoscopies and steroids. It'd be nice to use something like this. It didn't sound that much different than poo mixed with saline and insterted in, maybe like an enema? What if clostridia gets resistant to vancomyacin? then what? this will happen just like it has happend for MRSA, eventually.

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Jen
(mom of 3)

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I am not sure, but i can ask him for you next time we see him. We just saw him few hours ago though . He didn't mention it as a treatment option for us, he was talking as general about what was availabe in the past. Me, I would do anything if it helps my kid.

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Thank you
Monica

Jeni

I have an appointment with my DAN next Tuesday and I am going to ask him about the fecal transplant.

I spoke to our new DAN today re the possibility of a fecal implant for clostridia. He was very interested in this and said that unfortunately it was not offered as a treatment in the U.S. where doctors are coming under fire for various autism treatments. He said it was being done in Europe and he thinks maybe Australia; he also said that with adults it had a 90%to 95% success rate. He said the procedure itself would not be difficult just highly unpleasant but it looked as if it was successful with only one round.

Too good to be true? I don't know. I will check out who is doing it in Europe. The thought of getting rid of clostridia once and for all would make a huge difference for my daughter.

figures, the US is being so ridiculous about anything that helps autistic kids. It is scary that they are coming down on docs treating our kids. I just heard from my ND today that they're trying to get some homeopathic stuff banned in the US. I have a feeling when DMSA is unavailable it's going to get tougher to heal our kids poisoning. Not too many doctors will even use DMPS now because of lawsuits. Unfortunately many Autism advocates focusing on the vaccines are really scaring the government and it's going to be a witch hunt to keep it all under control and all of us complying. I also think they are really going to start forcing vaccines and threatening no medical care before too long.... since so many are starting to question it and hold off on shots.

The transplant makes a lot of sense to me. Do they do it while they are awake? I wonder if it's any worse than an enema? sigh that they don't do it here. I bet if my son wasn't diagnosed with ASD but had bowel problems, they'd do it.

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Jen
(mom of 3)

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So I could collect some feces from my NT son, mix it with some saline, and insert it like an enema? Sounds a bit gross, but will look it up! I am willing to ship my son's poo if anyone is interested.
Couldn't parents just use their own poo if it works? Does it have to be a child's poo?
From one article I read, it has to be inserted into the stomach with a naso gastric tube, a very easy thing to do. BTW, you wouldn't even have to use a doctor. Naso gastric tubes (stomach tubes) can easily be purchased from veterinary supply places such as Tractor Supply or from Jeffers off the internet. Find a nurse friend or a good paramedic (using a known household donor) to do a stomach tube (or just do an enema) and you're in business. I found this:

Select a stool specimen (preferably a soft specimen) with a weight of 30 g or a volume of 2 cm^3. Add 50-70 mL of sterile 0.9 N NaCl to the stool sample and homogenize with a household blender. Initially use the low setting until the sample breaks up; then, advance the speed gradually to the highest setting. Continue for 2-4 min until the sample is smooth. Filter the suspension using a paper coffee filter. Allow adequate time for slow filtration to come to an end. Refilter the suspension, again using a paper coffee filter. As before, allow adequate time for slow filtration.
25 mL of the suspension is then transferred to the recipient, who's already been prepared for the transplant via treatment with vancomycin (to kill off as much existing C. difficile as possible) and omeprazole (Prilosec, to decrease stomach acid production). The tube is then flushed with a salt solution and removed, and the recipient is free to go. (They were followed up either via phone or return visits to the clinic).

At this site: http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2007/ ... e_clos.php

Their could be a more pleasent alternative to fecal transplant i just found out about recently.I dont know wether you guys have heard of Kefir? It is a fermented Dairy drink which according to some kills of the yeast, replaces it with a good yeast, provides all the essential vitamins and minerals as well as amino acids and enzymes, but heres the best part, half a glass of this stuff provides between 7-10 billion probiotic strains of bacteria! Sounds too good to be true right? I was told that it was consumed by a lot of eastern europeans so lo and behold i went down to the nearest Polish store and it was on sale 80cent for a 1litre carton.Now granted it tastes quite disgusting to drink but it can easily be mixed with yogurts, smoothies etc. So we have started giving it to our little fella and hopefully this stuff works half as good as they say it does.Has anybody got any experience of using Kefir before?

We make kefir smoothies and drink kombucha. My son didn't really seem to have gut issues but I did. The kefir and kombucha have been enough for us, but I was wondering if a kefir-grain suppository would be effective for more stubborn cases. I googled it and here's some info I found on how to do it:

http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/IBD/index.htm

http://onibasu.com/archives/km/59143.html

http://onibasu.com/archives/km/3936.html

Kari, I like your train of thought on this. We use kefir here, for almost a year and it is a big helper, not enough to keep our yeast down but maybe I haven't given it enough time to work? If I'm killing yeast all the time along with the kefir the helpful kefir yeasts can't do their job. It always takes away the mouth tics for us. Can't go a day without it. I know my son's biggest problem now is just the large intestines. it is so hard to get the good guys down that far. Going the opposite way, makes some sense. I found adding beans have also helped alot. When the beans dry up in the plate it really reminds me of the leftover clay in our bath. I think it works the same way. I just have to muster up enough courage to do this 6 times a day. The nutritionist said to also take out the apple juice I've been giving. This is hard, it's the only thing I use for supplements. hmmm

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Jen
(mom of 3)

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I think we're onto something here. Just thinking about it all. The bean diet seems to work the same as the rice. She called it a white diet to clear up loose stools. we have a high rice allergy. She called me back at no charge to answer an email. She's had alot of success with the beans. It really makes some sense at cleaning the bile. The book is a great read. Go to karenhurd.com to read her child's story from pesticide poisoning. Psyllium works too, but I like the beans added as another food for us. Apple pectin will work but she said you'll need ALOT of it to take the place of the beans. I have a ton of kefir grains. Calendula is awesome at treating eczema. I bet it is great for intestinal inflammation too. Camomile increases stomach acid naturally. Kari, let me know if you're going to try this, maybe we can try at the same time and share notes. Going through the stomach, with poo, I just don't know if I can do that. I could see where that would be very traumatic to the child, using a feeding tube. Good thought though.

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Jen
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I'll bet it could also be done by inserting the transfer material (that sounds more polite) into empty gel caps. Granted, it would be a lot of capsules to swallow. Yuck, just yuck! My thought on the enema route was that it needs to get into the small intestine and the enema route would first have to travel through the large intestine. They do this procedure on adults who can "hold it" long enough to work, but can you imagine trying to get one of our kiddos to hold all of that liquid enema long enough with the cramping, etc?
If anybody tries this, would love to hear!!! Does it clear up all yeast and C dif both? Does that in theory mean no more GFCG diets, yeast treatments, mega supplements if it works right? Is there the potential for this to actually reverse autism, then? With the autism/gut connection it sure makes sense. I'll admit I didn't read this post initially because it sounded so gross, but now that I've started to look into it.....it may really work.

Ok, you guys, I got some info for you, please do not hate me
Here is how this procedure was done by that physician in canada who does not practice anymore.
you collect the stool from a healthy relative (mother, father , so on) for a week in a bucket, no preservatives or cooling. Then mix well, fill in a decorating cone (that cloth cone you use to decorate a cake).
Use the cone as an enema to empty all the content in the patient's colon. The patient needs to hold that as long as possible. That patient our DAN was talking about couldn't hold it more than 45 minutes but she was cured from chronic clostridia infection.
Please note, that is what i was told , i didn't see it and i do not know that PT who had it done.
Oh, forgot to mention, the stool donor has to have a Com. stool analysis done just to make sure he/she is not a parasite or Clostridia carrier.
I hope i didn't ruin your appetite for weeks.

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Thank you
Monica

what I want to know, is where do they keep that bucket for a week ?

The WHOLE contents? is that possible? that's a lot of poo inserted into the butt.

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Jen
(mom of 3)

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This is interesting.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20117243

You got me thinkn' girl! So, who's poo goes in the enema? I'm honestly thinking kefir grains maybe? after it's fermented 24 hours when it's bubbly.

A healthy family member. Lots of good yellow urine, good B making bacteria. hmmm.

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Jen
(mom of 3)

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My brother said this was on an episode of Grey's anatomy. I really do wish doctors would get with the program already!

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Jen
(mom of 3)

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http://gastroenterology.jwatch.org/cgi/ ... 2010/604/4

Stool plus saline plus enema bag. Pretty simple but gross.

I'm looking for a GI doc that will do this with a nasogastric tube. If I am unsuccessful finding a doc, we will be doing this method.

I'm fed up with bad bacteria and yeast flairs, not to mention food allergies, etc. If this might help fix the problem, I'm willing to give it a try.

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9YO PDD
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