Bacopa anyone?

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FatherOf2
Posts: 1550
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Bacopa anyone?

Postby FatherOf2 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:30 am

It seems to help with many things:

1. Anti-seizure. Here is an interesting study showing that Bacopa reversed seizures better than anti-seizure meds: http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/2012-02-28/common-herb-water-hyssop-reverses-epilepsy-treats-and-prevents-other-brain-disorders/ Bacopa was also better than its active component Bacoside A, which is attributed neuroprotective properties of the plant. So, other things in the plant help to reduce seizures. Some people are reported to become seizure-free after 1 year on Bacopa with their EEG becoming normal too. My main interest here is to normalize my son's EEG. But it appears that the anti-seizure effect of Bacopa kicks in at very high doses 150mg/kg.

2. Improves memory. There was a study on special-needs children ages 4-18 http://www.bacomind.in/clinical.htm, which showed "significant improvement in the working memory, logical memory, in memory related to personal life and also visual as well as auditory memory". Mechanism of memory enhancement has not been completely understood, but appears to be related to either enhancing neuronal transmission (via enhancing dendritic proliferation) or through interactions with the serotonergic system (which then influence acetylcholinergic transmission). It is known to inhibit acetylcholinesterase, activate choline acetyltransferase, and increase cerebral blood flow. In regards to persons with impaired memory, low dose Bacopa (125mg daily) appears to be somewhat effective.

3. Reduces anxiety. Bacopa is shown to be active at the 5HT (serotonin) receptors.

4. Neuroprotective. Bacopa has been noted to, in rats, reduce Superoxide Dismutase (SOD) levels by 2.4-fold in the hippocampus at 20mg/kg oral ingestion, without significantly affecting other areas of the brain. Bacopa Monnieri supplementation can reduce oxidative damage from aluminum and prevent an increase in cognitive iron stores in cases of overload. These effects are also seen with mercury, in which Bacopa Monnieri appears to reduce oxidative damage from mercury on brain tissue in vivo where near pre-testing levels of damage were achieved with 40mg/kg bodyweight, although full protection was not seen. In general, Bacopa Monnieri appears to protect the brain from the damage induced by excessive mineral status.

5. Reduces neuroinflammation. Bacopa Monnieri at 200mg/kg (large dose) was associated with IL-1β and TNF-α being reduced in older age (22% and 25.7% less IL-1β and TNF-α, respectively, in the Bacopa treated groups) and having the elevation associated with aging suppressed in all experimental groups. IFN-γ was not significantly affected. These anti-inflammatory effects have been seen in vitro and is attributed to the steroidal saponins (the bacosides). Additionally, Bacopa Monnieri is associated with preventing beta-amyloid pigmentation build-up and may be a therapeutic approach to Alzheimer's. It may decrease beta-amyloid pigmentation through controlling oxidation (from lipids, metals, and ROS) and inhibiting lipoxygenase activity.

6. Low toxicity. One study using 300mg daily in older adults noted more gastrointestinal side-effects (cramping and nausea) than placebo. Other studies also note upset stomachs that are routinely different than placebo and one study noted increased diarrhea. At this moment in time, these remain the only adverse effect noted in humans. No significant case studies exist.

Other details can be found here http://examine.com/supplements/Bacopa+monnieri/ The two well known versions of Bacopa extracts are BacoMind and Bacognize. BacoMind is in Nutrigold's Bacopa Gold. But Nutrigold appears to be a multi-level marketing company encouraging positive reviews of their products by giving away free products. Bacognize is in Swanson's Bacopa extract (90 capsules 250mg each).

expo
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:20 am

Re: Bacopa anyone?

Postby expo » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:46 am

I have been using this on my DS along with other ayurvedic herbs like ashwagandha and brahmi. Ashwagandha seems to be doing a ton of things to regulate our body. I am not able to fully credit the progress to bacapo but I'm purely using this for its effect on memory and concentration. Though my son is almost recovered and in typical grade (with some issues like focus and speech fluidity), I'm using the combo herbs so it could help increase his attention span and memory.

Kari
Posts: 1148
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:37 pm

Re: Bacopa anyone?

Postby Kari » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:13 am

I have the liquid extract. When I was looking into it, it seemed that a lot needed to be taken to have an effect and it has a strong taste, as do some of the other herbs that could be beneficial. Expo, how do you giver the herbs to your son? Does he take capsules?

expo
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:20 am

Re: Bacopa anyone?

Postby expo » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:40 am

Kari- my kid is swallowing capsules but the herbs are in powder form and I mix it with honey to make a thick paste. It is hard to take it this way but he is used to it.

kulkulkan
Posts: 2075
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:37 pm

Re: Bacopa anyone?

Postby kulkulkan » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:57 am

expo wrote:Kari- my kid is swallowing capsules but the herbs are in powder form and I mix it with honey to make a thick paste. It is hard to take it this way but he is used to it.


Can also buy empty capsules from iherb. Lots of different sizes. Might be easier.

Nicolerene77
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:52 pm

Re: Bacopa anyone?

Postby Nicolerene77 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:58 pm

I have the Swanson version, but have not started it yet. Curious if anyone else has used it.

Leo
Posts: 187
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:50 pm

Re: Bacopa anyone?

Postby Leo » Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:39 pm

We did Bacopa for a year, stopped recently as wanted to add new supplements. We did the organic India one. Not sure if we benefitted from it.
iHerbs Referral Code - ZHK716
$5 off order < $40,$10 off on orde > $40

kaleighs_journey06
Posts: 153
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:20 pm

Re: Bacopa anyone?

Postby kaleighs_journey06 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:56 pm

FatherOf2 wrote:It seems to help with many things:

1. Anti-seizure. Here is an interesting study showing that Bacopa reversed seizures better than anti-seizure meds: http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/2012-02-28/common-herb-water-hyssop-reverses-epilepsy-treats-and-prevents-other-brain-disorders/ Bacopa was also better than its active component Bacoside A, which is attributed neuroprotective properties of the plant. So, other things in the plant help to reduce seizures. Some people are reported to become seizure-free after 1 year on Bacopa with their EEG becoming normal too. My main interest here is to normalize my son's EEG. But it appears that the anti-seizure effect of Bacopa kicks in at very high doses 150mg/kg.

2. Improves memory. There was a study on special-needs children ages 4-18 http://www.bacomind.in/clinical.htm, which showed "significant improvement in the working memory, logical memory, in memory related to personal life and also visual as well as auditory memory". Mechanism of memory enhancement has not been completely understood, but appears to be related to either enhancing neuronal transmission (via enhancing dendritic proliferation) or through interactions with the serotonergic system (which then influence acetylcholinergic transmission). It is known to inhibit acetylcholinesterase, activate choline acetyltransferase, and increase cerebral blood flow. In regards to persons with impaired memory, low dose Bacopa (125mg daily) appears to be somewhat effective.

3. Reduces anxiety. Bacopa is shown to be active at the 5HT (serotonin) receptors.

4. Neuroprotective. Bacopa has been noted to, in rats, reduce Superoxide Dismutase (SOD) levels by 2.4-fold in the hippocampus at 20mg/kg oral ingestion, without significantly affecting other areas of the brain. Bacopa Monnieri supplementation can reduce oxidative damage from aluminum and prevent an increase in cognitive iron stores in cases of overload. These effects are also seen with mercury, in which Bacopa Monnieri appears to reduce oxidative damage from mercury on brain tissue in vivo where near pre-testing levels of damage were achieved with 40mg/kg bodyweight, although full protection was not seen. In general, Bacopa Monnieri appears to protect the brain from the damage induced by excessive mineral status.

5. Reduces neuroinflammation. Bacopa Monnieri at 200mg/kg (large dose) was associated with IL-1β and TNF-α being reduced in older age (22% and 25.7% less IL-1β and TNF-α, respectively, in the Bacopa treated groups) and having the elevation associated with aging suppressed in all experimental groups. IFN-γ was not significantly affected. These anti-inflammatory effects have been seen in vitro and is attributed to the steroidal saponins (the bacosides). Additionally, Bacopa Monnieri is associated with preventing beta-amyloid pigmentation build-up and may be a therapeutic approach to Alzheimer's. It may decrease beta-amyloid pigmentation through controlling oxidation (from lipids, metals, and ROS) and inhibiting lipoxygenase activity.

6. Low toxicity. One study using 300mg daily in older adults noted more gastrointestinal side-effects (cramping and nausea) than placebo. Other studies also note upset stomachs that are routinely different than placebo and one study noted increased diarrhea. At this moment in time, these remain the only adverse effect noted in humans. No significant case studies exist.

Other details can be found here http://examine.com/supplements/Bacopa+monnieri/ The two well known versions of Bacopa extracts are BacoMind and Bacognize. BacoMind is in Nutrigold's Bacopa Gold. But Nutrigold appears to be a multi-level marketing company encouraging positive reviews of their products by giving away free products. Bacognize is in Swanson's Bacopa extract (90 capsules 250mg each).



Looking at it right now on iherb thanks!!
Will definitely consider as an anti-epileptic aid

kaleighs_journey06
Posts: 153
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:20 pm

Re: Bacopa anyone?

Postby kaleighs_journey06 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:07 pm

Just purchased some from iherb, excited to try it.

Duchykins
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:24 am

Re: Bacopa anyone?

Postby Duchykins » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:47 am

Bacopa is a vasodilator. Caution should be used in people already taking moderate to high doses of other significant vasodilators like niacin, arginine, glutamate, gingko, others. Many drugs associated with nootropics such as bacopa are vasodilators in varying degrees, this is part of their efficacy in enhancing or healing various apsects of cognition and brain health by increasing blood flow and oxygen transportation. Some people are more sensitive to vasodilation and will be prone to headaches triggered by such drugs, perhaps even migraines in some. Such headaches may be prevented by lowering dose, staggering doses of different vasodilators, and/or adding a potent vasoconstrictor such as something that significantly boosts serotonin like tryptophan or 5 htp. A vasoconstrictor may also help abort an ongoing vasodilatory headache where typical analgesics often fail.

I can offer some testimony as to bacopa's anxiolytic effects. Mild and gentle focus. Not sedating unless in high doses. I am considering adding it to my daughter's regimen.

FatherOf2
Posts: 1550
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: Bacopa anyone?

Postby FatherOf2 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:09 am

Duchykins wrote:Bacopa is a vasodilator. Caution should be used in people already taking moderate to high doses of other significant vasodilators like niacin, arginine, glutamate, gingko, others. Many drugs associated with nootropics such as bacopa are vasodilators in varying degrees, this is part of their efficacy in enhancing or healing various apsects of cognition and brain health by increasing blood flow and oxygen transportation. Some people are more sensitive to vasodilation and will be prone to headaches triggered by such drugs, perhaps even migraines in some. Such headaches may be prevented by lowering dose, staggering doses of different vasodilators, and/or adding a potent vasoconstrictor such as something that significantly boosts serotonin like tryptophan or 5 htp. A vasoconstrictor may also help abort an ongoing vasodilatory headache where typical analgesics often fail.

I can offer some testimony as to bacopa's anxiolytic effects. Mild and gentle focus. Not sedating unless in high doses. I am considering adding it to my daughter's regimen.

You seem to know a lot about this. I didn't know that 5HTP is a vasoconstricter. What dose of Bacopa would you recommend for a 5yo 36lbs? I also wanted to combine it with Vinpocetine 5mg, which is another vasolidator. Is it OK? I know that some herbal brain boosters combine Bacopa and Vipocetine, for example Clari-T. We already took Vinpocetine 5mg before and saw a slight improvement in speech and focus, with little hyperactivity. I am staying away from Ginkgo Biloba because it can cause seizures. Bacopa and Vinpocetine reduce seizures.

kaleighs_journey06
Posts: 153
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:20 pm

Re: Bacopa anyone?

Postby kaleighs_journey06 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:15 am

Duchykins wrote:Bacopa is a vasodilator. Caution should be used in people already taking moderate to high doses of other significant vasodilators like niacin, arginine, glutamate, gingko, others. Many drugs associated with nootropics such as bacopa are vasodilators in varying degrees, this is part of their efficacy in enhancing or healing various apsects of cognition and brain health by increasing blood flow and oxygen transportation. Some people are more sensitive to vasodilation and will be prone to headaches triggered by such drugs, perhaps even migraines in some. Such headaches may be prevented by lowering dose, staggering doses of different vasodilators, and/or adding a potent vasoconstrictor such as something that significantly boosts serotonin like tryptophan or 5 htp. A vasoconstrictor may also help abort an ongoing vasodilatory headache where typical analgesics often fail.

I can offer some testimony as to bacopa's anxiolytic effects. Mild and gentle focus. Not sedating unless in high doses. I am considering adding it to my daughter's regimen.


You sound like one of those medication commercials :D But thanks for the info! Our daughter doesn't take any sedating meds or vasodilators.

fiveyearswasted
Posts: 499
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:08 pm

Re: Bacopa anyone?

Postby fiveyearswasted » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:34 am

I made this on CustomCapsule.com recently. I like bacopa, I like it a lot :-)

Ingredients %DV
Vitamin K (Phytonadione) 100 MCG 125%
Policosanol 20 MG N/A
Piperine 98% 20 MG N/A
Vinpocetine 50 MG N/A
Naringin 80 MG N/A
Resveratrol (From Polygonum cuspidatum) 100 MG N/A
Idebenone 100 MG N/A
Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10 Natural) 200 MG N/A
Milk Thistle (80% Silymarin) 200 MG N/A
Gotu Kola ( 10% Triterpenes) 200 MG 20,000%
Ginkgo biloba (24% Flavonoids / 6% Terpenes) 200 MG N/A
Ashwangandha PE 2.5% 400 MG N/A
Rhodiola rosea Root ( 3% Rosavins ) 600 MG N/A
Bacopa Monnieri 600 MG N/A
No scientific evidence that autism has a toxic or allergic basis. - Mr. Barrett

Duchykins
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:24 am

Re: Bacopa anyone?

Postby Duchykins » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:45 am

FatherOf2 wrote:
Duchykins wrote:Bacopa is a vasodilator. Caution should be used in people already taking moderate to high doses of other significant vasodilators like niacin, arginine, glutamate, gingko, others. Many drugs associated with nootropics such as bacopa are vasodilators in varying degrees, this is part of their efficacy in enhancing or healing various apsects of cognition and brain health by increasing blood flow and oxygen transportation. Some people are more sensitive to vasodilation and will be prone to headaches triggered by such drugs, perhaps even migraines in some. Such headaches may be prevented by lowering dose, staggering doses of different vasodilators, and/or adding a potent vasoconstrictor such as something that significantly boosts serotonin like tryptophan or 5 htp. A vasoconstrictor may also help abort an ongoing vasodilatory headache where typical analgesics often fail.

I can offer some testimony as to bacopa's anxiolytic effects. Mild and gentle focus. Not sedating unless in high doses. I am considering adding it to my daughter's regimen.

You seem to know a lot about this. I didn't know that 5HTP is a vasoconstricter. What dose of Bacopa would you recommend for a 5yo 36lbs? I also wanted to combine it with Vinpocetine 5mg, which is another vasolidator. Is it OK? I know that some herbal brain boosters combine Bacopa and Vipocetine, for example Clari-T. We already took Vinpocetine 5mg before and saw a slight improvement in speech and focus, with little hyperactivity. I am staying away from Ginkgo Biloba because it can cause seizures. Bacopa and Vinpocetine reduce seizures.


I'm very new to giving stuff to kids so I can't comment on dosage except to say that there is ofte8n a pattern of odsing 3-5 year olds with 1/5 to 1/4 adult doses. Of course it would be smarter to dose by weight.

I'm a decade-long migraineur and have acquired quite the little mental library about types of headaches, causes, abortives and preventatives in an effort to control my own headaches.

If your child has not had any headaches with the current dilators then don't be worried. Vasodilators are no big deal to most people, even beneficial since it means increased blood flow, oxygen transport, lots of drugs related to nootropics are vasodilators. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to alarm anyone. And as for 5 htp, it's the serotonin that is the constrictor, 5 htp just removes one step in making serotonin.

Kastania
Posts: 864
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:13 am

Re: Bacopa anyone?

Postby Kastania » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:31 am

Fatherof2, I hope you don't mind me saying this, but if your son is 36 lbs at five years of age, he seems to be under-weight. Have you looked into this aspect first - is he getting enough calories and is he absorbing nutrients well? Have you ever had him scoped?

FatherOf2
Posts: 1550
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: Bacopa anyone?

Postby FatherOf2 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:13 am

Kastania wrote:Fatherof2, I hope you don't mind me saying this, but if your son is 36 lbs at five years of age, he seems to be under-weight. Have you looked into this aspect first - is he getting enough calories and is he absorbing nutrients well? Have you ever had him scoped?

I really appreciate your concern. Could you explain what should we be checking for? Every time we go to our pediatrician, he says "nothing to worry about". We saw a metabolic specialist last year, who said the same thing. What could be the reason for under-weight? Parasites, gut flora, thyroid? We checked them a year ago and no parasites, thyroid and flora are normal. He is a border-line mito kid and also a very picky eater. We took him off milk for 3 months and he lost a lot of weight with no improvements in behaviors. Last month, we put him back on milk, and he is getting some weight now. We gave him Carnitine for mito, but it made his stool diarrhea-like. His bowel movements are regular, once a day. May be I should be giving him digestive enzymes before meals?

Kastania
Posts: 864
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:13 am

Re: Bacopa anyone?

Postby Kastania » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:27 pm

Fatherof2, I've been working on my daughter's digestion for a long time now. She was failure to thrive, was underweight and wasn't absorbing food properly. One test that helped was the Metametrix G.I. Effects, which tells you quite a bit about how your child is digesting fats, carbohydrates and proteins.

http://www.metametrix.com/test-menu/profiles/gastrointestinal-function/dna-stool-analysis-gi-effects

We also had my daughter scoped and this gave us more information. Basically, she has malabsorption and I think dong strict SCD and LOD for so long, was counter-productive because she wasn't getting enough calories.. The combination of a strict diet and malabsorption is perhaps not the best for the brain development of a child. These diets were not meant for children and sometimes I think we don't give our children enough calories. They also need carbohydrates and a variety of foods. Check if your child is getting enough calories? Can he digest fats and proteins?

One book which helped me a lot was 'Special Needs Kids Eat Right' by nutritionist Judy Converse who explains how important it is that our kids get enough calories. She also talks about supplementing with clinical foods such as Neocate or Splash - these are not ideal because of the ingredients but can be very helpful. We use regular enzymes, pancreatic enzymes, bile salts, MCT oil and will be re-trialling Splash again soon.

kaleighs_journey06
Posts: 153
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:20 pm

Re: Bacopa anyone?

Postby kaleighs_journey06 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:11 pm

Kastania wrote:Fatherof2, I hope you don't mind me saying this, but if your son is 36 lbs at five years of age, he seems to be under-weight. Have you looked into this aspect first - is he getting enough calories and is he absorbing nutrients well? Have you ever had him scoped?



Our daughter's weight seems iffy to me too. I call her skinny girl lol. She'll be 8 in April and weighs 50lbs, barely. Is this accurate? I saw an article that said an 8yr old should weigh 57lbs.

fiveyearswasted
Posts: 499
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:08 pm

Re: Bacopa anyone?

Postby fiveyearswasted » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:39 am

FWIW, I had a friend whose son had pretty bad ADHD. He was underweight for a 10 year old with either a really fast metabolism or poor absorption. She had to give him 1 to 2 protein bars a day in addition to regular meals. Without the protein bars he would lose weight.
No scientific evidence that autism has a toxic or allergic basis. - Mr. Barrett

luis
Posts: 246
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:42 pm

Re: Bacopa anyone?

Postby luis » Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:54 am

Isn't anyone worried about contamination of Bacopa with heavy metals ? Bacopa has high affinity for mercury, cadmium and other heavy metals which they extract from the soil.


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