ASD recovery with CD

Discuss autism diets and biomedical treatments of autism.

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Josie
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:35 am

Re: ASD recovery with CD

Postby Josie » Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:22 pm


The fact that CD is a poison doesn't bother me. I consider all man-made drugs to be poisons. Aspirin and Tylonol in large enough quantaties can kill. So, the question is really whether treatment by CD has any reason why it should work. If we look at "conventional" treatments of ASD, they try to fight oxidative stress and inflammation with anti-oxidants and anti-inflammatories. But the oxidative stress and inflammation is a reaction of an organizm to a pathogen. So, we can't go far with these treatments unless we remove the pathogen. In fact, anti-inflammatries lower the immune response and allow the pathogen to multiply. We all know that corticosteroids don't cure ASD, but only provide a temporary relief. So, thinking loudly, may be the treatment should copy what our body attempts to do while fighting pathogens: oxidize them. Perhaps that is why CD may work: it is a strong oxidant, a bazuka that kills everything.


It does seem to kill everything. Here is a link to the Scientific Data on CD from Dr. Andreas Kalcker's Website. I am not an expert on this subject so I have not read it all. I only looked though it quickly. I am sharing the link for those who may have an interest in this subject.

http://www.andreaskalcker.com/en/docume ... -data.html

kulkulkan
Posts: 2075
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:37 pm

Re: ASD recovery with CD

Postby kulkulkan » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:14 pm

FatherOf2 wrote:The fact that CD is a poison doesn't bother me. I consider all man-made drugs to be poisons. Aspirin and Tylonol in large enough quantaties can kill. So, the question is really whether treatment by CD has any reason why it should work. If we look at "conventional" treatments of ASD, they try to fight oxidative stress and inflammation with anti-oxidants and anti-inflammatories. But the oxidative stress and inflammation is a reaction of an organizm to a pathogen. So, we can't go far with these treatments unless we remove the pathogen. In fact, anti-inflammatries lower the immune response and allow the pathogen to multiply. We all know that corticosteroids don't cure ASD, but only provide a temporary relief. So, thinking loudly, may be the treatment should copy what our body attempts to do while fighting pathogens: oxidize them. Perhaps that is why CD may work: it is a strong oxidant, a bazuka that kills everything.


Okay lets ignore that slowly poisoning your child with dosages that far exceed any safety guideline (and worse, marketing it as safe to other parents) is a bad idea. If you actually watch the Kalcker presentation, he mentions parasites keep coming back, so you need to do this very long term (and according to him, one needs anti-parasitic meds as MMS/CD is not sufficient to kill parasites apparently, although it is a strong oxidant that will kill all of the microbiome). To me that means that you are not really fixing the underlying disorder (whether immune related or not), just trying to treat one of the many "plausible" co-morbid symptoms such as yeast that keep coming back. Kalcker mentions that parasites are common (40% of the population including non-ASD kids). So to get around this problem, he holds vaccines responsible for causing the disorder that makes parasites a problem in ASD context, which MMS doesn't really address (hence, MMS protocol has been expanded to include many of the traditional biomed approaches and I am guessing includes MAF as well now which is probably why Ruggiero was in that interview).

FatherOf2
Posts: 1563
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:37 am

Re: ASD recovery with CD

Postby FatherOf2 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:01 pm

kulkulkan wrote:Okay lets ignore that slowly poisoning your child with dosages that far exceed any safety guideline (and worse, marketing it as safe to other parents) is a bad idea. If you actually watch the Kalcker presentation, he mentions parasites keep coming back, so you need to do this very long term (and according to him, one needs anti-parasitic meds as MMS/CD is not sufficient to kill parasites apparently, although it is a strong oxidant that will kill all of the microbiome). To me that means that you are not really fixing the underlying disorder (whether immune related or not), just trying to treat one of the many "plausible" co-morbid symptoms such as yeast that keep coming back. Kalcker mentions that parasites are common (40% of the population including non-ASD kids). So to get around this problem, he holds vaccines responsible for causing the disorder that makes parasites a problem in ASD context, which MMS doesn't really address (hence, MMS protocol has been expanded to include many of the traditional biomed approaches and I am guessing includes MAF as well now which is probably why Ruggiero was in that interview).

You bring an interesting point. I watched Kalcker's presentation. I accepted the fact that many autistic children have parasites and that their moods are affected by them. I've read several testimonies from parents who had irritable and impulsive children until they were treated for parasites. In fact, I want to ask Dr R for a prescription to Mebendazole because I observed that bahaviors in my son come around full moon lately, about every 3 months. I also noticed in Kalcker's presentation how he tried to connect parasites to vaccines: vaccines lower the immune response, allowing parasites to go into hidden places where it is hard to detect. I don't completely buy this theory. First of all, I thought that vaccines increase the immune response, not reduce. However, it could be more complicated than that: vaccines could shift the immune response from anti-fungal/anti-parasitic to antiviral, thus allowing yeast and parasites to florish. I also didn't like that in the Rivera's presentation the CD treatment got augmented with classcal DAN treatments like
- anti-parasitic treatments such as Mebendazole
- supplements such as Probiotics, Carnosine, Carnitine, Omega 6, GABA, Taurine, 5HTP, DMG, B6, B12, ...
- Chelation (Bio-Chelat, DMPS, EDTA IV mentioned)
- HBOT
- GcMAF
- Anti-seizure (GABA and Keppra mentioned)

It makes you feel that CD doesn't help alone, and in fact, it make you question if it works at all. Nevertheless, having an open mind, I don't see much difference between the CD ptotocol and the Diflucan/Vancomycin/Valtrex protocol: both will kill the GI flora and the patient if taken long enough.

-Sophie-
Posts: 303
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:08 pm

Re: ASD recovery with CD

Postby -Sophie- » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:34 am

MMS, now trying to scam the Irish


"MMS. Magical Mineral Solution. CD. Chlorine Dioxide protocol. It has many names. And it’s a scam. Hiding behind a “church”. And now the Irish get to battle this.

Magic Mineral Solution isn’t magic and it isn’t a mineral solution. It’s a bleach. And among the various scams is the idea that if you force your autistic kid to drink this bleach or take this bleach as an enema, you can cure your child’s autism.

In 2012, after three hospital admissions and other incidents linked to MMS, Dr Naren Gunja of New South Wales’ Poisons Information Centre in Australia told the Sydney Morning Herald: “It’s a bit like drinking concentrated bleach. They’ve had corrosive injuries: vomiting, stomach pains, diarrhoea.

“If you drink enough sodium chlorite it causes kidney problems, it could cause death.”

MMS got it’s foothold in the autism community through the AutismOne conferences. Here in the U.S., gatherings like AutismOne sell all manner of faux therapies for autism. AutismOne will take just about anyone’s money to present a cure, especially if it is sold as healing “vaccine injury”..."


More @ http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2014/0 ... the-irish/

AIM
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 4:35 pm

Re: ASD recovery with CD

Postby AIM » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:52 am

No one has died or got injured using the safe CD protocol in Kerri's book. CD/MMS has been in use for hundreds of chronic illnesses for over 15 years very safely and successfully by a very large number of people all over the world.

When someones ATEC score goes from around a 150 and come to below 10, then it is considered ATEC recovery. Kids and adults do not stop there and keep going to a ATEC score of 0. The ATEC scale is not perfect and subjective and misses out on a lot of things. People keep progressing beyond the ATEC scores in a lot of areas that ATEC does not measure.

makingitpossible
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:25 am

Re: ASD recovery with CD

Postby makingitpossible » Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:10 am

Is CD Chlorine Dioxide?

Sorry not really paying attention to this but have been focusing on how to get this substance out of my drinking water.
Apparently almost all of us are drinking it anyway.
http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw/mdbp/pdf/alter/chapt_4.pdf
700 out of 900 treatment plants

myc
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:28 pm

Re: ASD recovery with CD

Postby myc » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:08 am

in case you have Facebook, check out this group and their feedback.. https://www.facebook.com/groups/AutismCD/

its crazy what those parents are getting out of their kids and themselves.... besides having those parasites effect our kids in their behavior.. its also just concerning that we have those ugly #$++ inside of us...

I ordered CD and I will try it on myself for a few weeks ...

kulkulkan
Posts: 2075
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:37 pm

Re: ASD recovery with CD

Postby kulkulkan » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:21 pm

makingitpossible wrote:Is CD Chlorine Dioxide?

Sorry not really paying attention to this but have been focusing on how to get this substance out of my drinking water.
Apparently almost all of us are drinking it anyway.
http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw/mdbp/pdf/alter/chapt_4.pdf
700 out of 900 treatment plants


Yes, same thing. In drinking water, the concentration is supposed to be less than than 1PPM which is within the EPA safety guideline (I would try to remove all chlorination byproducts as much as possible including CD byproducts which include chlorites and chlorates). Of course, safety guideline doesn't mean it is really safe or desirable. 10PPM is usually the shock value when trying to clean my pool with chlorine and at 10PPM, CD has been shown to kill a small fish within 48 hours. I believe MMS protocol is anywhere from 10 to 1000+ PPM.

Here is a mouse study on the chlorination by-products causing autistic behaviors in male mice but not female mice, so whether CD or not, I would try to purify all drinking water as much as possible and try to limit swimming time as much as possible.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21740927

ninibaba
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:49 pm

Re: ASD recovery with CD

Postby ninibaba » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:02 pm

myc wrote:in case you have Facebook, check out this group and their feedback.. https://www.facebook.com/groups/AutismCD/

its crazy what those parents are getting out of their kids and themselves.... besides having those parasites effect our kids in their behavior.. its also just concerning that we have those ugly #$++ inside of us...

I ordered CD and I will try it on myself for a few weeks ...


Hi,MYc, let us know how you are doing with CD when you are trying it.

I used to think cd was a scam, but now I am hesitating. I just can't believe those parents are lying when they talk about their kids' drop in ATEC. I am just worried about whether these kids can get off cd and still be fine, and the effect of long term use.

Nicolerene77
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:52 pm

Re: ASD recovery with CD

Postby Nicolerene77 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:54 pm

I followed the facebook page out of curiosity until about a week ago. I wondered when some parent was going to take the pile of "worms" they were getting out of their child to a lab to be tested. I finally got my wish. The labs results? Mucous. The parents response? "Of course I know better, they are parasites." This is the issue I have. The blind following. I don't think the improvements people are saying they are getting are parasite removal related. Also the number of cases "cured" (92?) seems miniscule based on the number of people that must be doing this protocol. And of those, most probably don't fit my definition of cured. Please follow the page to quell your curiosity. I had enough.

AIM
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 4:35 pm

Re: ASD recovery with CD

Postby AIM » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:04 pm

The pubmed study referenced above is from chlorine, not chlorine dioxide. The two often get confused together but they are not the same. A lot of municipal water purification systems have now switched from chlorine to chlorine dioxide. Chlorine produces harmful carcinogens.

Difference between chlorine dioxide and chlorine:
http://www.finnestate.fi/Chlorine%20Dioxide.pdf

Nicolerene77
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:52 pm

Re: ASD recovery with CD

Postby Nicolerene77 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:05 pm

Also. The use of ATEC can be a good tool, but I find it to be really subjective. On any given day my spouse and I could score my daughter and get widely different results. I'm still waiting for the person to come around and say: "we used cd for 2yrs and finshed a year ago. My daughter is cured, we need no therapy or other biomed interventions, etc." This is just an example obviously. But where are ghose people if its been around so long?

ninibaba
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:49 pm

Re: ASD recovery with CD

Postby ninibaba » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:13 pm

Nicolerene77 wrote:I followed the facebook page out of curiosity until about a week ago. I wondered when some parent was going to take the pile of "worms" they were getting out of their child to a lab to be tested. I finally got my wish. The labs results? Mucous. The parents response? "Of course I know better, they are parasites." This is the issue I have. The blind following. I don't think the improvements people are saying they are getting are parasite removal related. Also the number of cases "cured" (92?) seems miniscule based on the number of people that must be doing this protocol. And of those, most probably don't fit my definition of cured. Please follow the page to quell your curiosity. I had enough.


I agree with you on the blind following part, always wonder if they are parasites or not. But even when those improvements were not parasites related, there must be some kind of improvements to account for the ATEC drop. I don't think all the members in CD facebook group are doing the protocol either. I am wondering how many of them are like you and me, just there to watch. so even if only a hundred were "cured" ATEC wise, it is a lot.

Please don't take me wrong, I am not defending CD, I'm not doing it either. Just wondering by watching what is happening.

makingitpossible
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:25 am

Re: ASD recovery with CD

Postby makingitpossible » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:23 pm

kulkulkan wrote:
makingitpossible wrote:Is CD Chlorine Dioxide?

Sorry not really paying attention to this but have been focusing on how to get this substance out of my drinking water.
Apparently almost all of us are drinking it anyway.
http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw/mdbp/pdf/alter/chapt_4.pdf
700 out of 900 treatment plants


Yes, same thing. In drinking water, the concentration is supposed to be less than than 1PPM which is within the EPA safety guideline (I would try to remove all chlorination byproducts as much as possible including CD byproducts which include chlorites and chlorates). Of course, safety guideline doesn't mean it is really safe or desirable. 10PPM is usually the shock value when trying to clean my pool with chlorine and at 10PPM, CD has been shown to kill a small fish within 48 hours. I believe MMS protocol is anywhere from 10 to 1000+ PPM.

Here is a mouse study on the chlorination by-products causing autistic behaviors in male mice but not female mice, so whether CD or not, I would try to purify all drinking water as much as possible and try to limit swimming time as much as possible.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21740927


I go back and forth between thinking what is worse....city lakes or our apartment chlorine pool. We live in Minnesota so have to enjoy the whole 3 month summer/spring/fall we get but I do limit exposure to 1-2 times per week and about 1 hour. Any detox for the chlorine pool? Have you personally considered salt water pools?
My daughter's main exposure is through the bath tub. We got a shower filter thinking that would solve it but the water is too cold coming out. The bath filters get terrible reviews and she loves drinking the water.
We distill at home but then again I send her with water to school but she comes home with the chlorine stuff. So yes exposure is there.

Nicolerene77 wrote:I followed the facebook page out of curiosity until about a week ago. I wondered when some parent was going to take the pile of "worms" they were getting out of their child to a lab to be tested. I finally got my wish. The labs results? Mucous. The parents response? "Of course I know better, they are parasites." This is the issue I have. The blind following. I don't think the improvements people are saying they are getting are parasite removal related. Also the number of cases "cured" (92?) seems miniscule based on the number of people that must be doing this protocol. And of those, most probably don't fit my definition of cured. Please follow the page to quell your curiosity. I had enough.


That is hilarious. I used to be convinced my daughter had parasites. I think we all have some. I got her stool tested with what i thought was a long worm and it turned out to be vegetable fibers.
The whole parasite issue goes the other way too. Lack of exposure doesn't cause the immune system to develop properly and makes kids more susceptible to autoimmune disease which you could argue autism is. I am not going to argue who is right but this makes more sense to me...lack of biome in the gut. I had a C-section baby and took antibiotics for years as a teenager. The 3 times my daughter has been on antibiotics in life I saw no improvement what so ever and two out of the 3 were biomed "treatments."

kulkulkan
Posts: 2075
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:37 pm

Re: ASD recovery with CD

Postby kulkulkan » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:42 pm

MIP, we switched to salt water pool a while ago but did have early exposure with chlorine pool as well as no whole house water filtration system when our son was a newborn (so, yet another risk factor, I believe). Our son did used to drink a lot of pool water when much younger but not as much anymore. In the salt water pool the chlorine content is typically around 1.5PPM (max 3PPM) and pretty constant throughout the season (so, don't need to shock it much at all; at most 1 - 3 times a season; which raises chlorine content to over 10PPM for couple of days at most).

We do make sure that the kids shower thoroughly after swimming and we also often do Epsom salt baths same day (1-2 times a week). Also I do supplement extra iodine those days as well. Don't really know whether those things really help but certainly cannot hurt.

Twinboysmom
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:10 pm

Re: ASD recovery with CD

Postby Twinboysmom » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:49 pm

Nicolerene77 wrote:I followed the facebook page out of curiosity until about a week ago. I wondered when some parent was going to take the pile of "worms" they were getting out of their child to a lab to be tested. I finally got my wish. The labs results? Mucous. The parents response? "Of course I know better, they are parasites." This is the issue I have. The blind following. I don't think the improvements people are saying they are getting are parasite removal related. Also the number of cases "cured" (92?) seems miniscule based on the number of people that must be doing this protocol. And of those, most probably don't fit my definition of cured. Please follow the page to quell your curiosity. I had enough.



I have speculated on this forum more than once that what parents were seeing was mucus or mucus that sheds from the colon during injury. I took care of a patient in the ICU 2 weeks ago that had an emergency surgery because part of his intestines essentially died (we call it dead gut). Two days after the surgery he had handfuls of these "wormy" looking mucus coming out of his colostomy. Surgeon said it was mucus from his colon being shed from injury. Looked a lot like what the MMS cult posts cin out of their children. I truly believe that this product can be dangerous and harmful to the GI system.

Josie
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:35 am

Re: ASD recovery with CD

Postby Josie » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:06 pm

I read that our gut is made of good and bad organisms. The "Friendly" organism manufacture useful compounds for the person who carries them and the "Unfriendly" organisms produce toxins The toxins unbalance systems of the body and produce illness.

I also read that 80% of the immune system is located in the gut, and that the immune system is designed to regulate the micro-flora of organisms in the lumen of the gut. It does this by producing an antibody known as Secretory-A. This antibody sits on the surface of the endothelium, the layer of cells lining the gut, and it kills off bad organisms. When the immune system becomes dysregulated by toxins, Secretory-A is not made in sufficient quantity and the "Unfriendly" organisms take over.

I can see why killing the organisms is helpful, but like antibiotics wouldn't something like CD kill off the "Friendly" organisms as well? Isn't there a better way to heal the gut and get rid of the bad organisms? What if the benefit is not from killing the parasites but from something else being removed from the gut?
Last edited by Josie on Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kulkulkan
Posts: 2075
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:37 pm

Re: ASD recovery with CD

Postby kulkulkan » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:16 pm

Josie wrote:I read that our gut is made of good and bad organisms. The "Friendly" organism manufacture useful compounds for the person who carries them and the "Unfriendly" organisms produce toxins The toxins unbalance systems of the body and produce illness.

I also read that 80% of the immune system is located in the gut, and that the immune system is designed to regulate the micro-flora of organisms in the lumen of the gut. It does this by producing an antibody known as Secretory-A. This antibody sits on the surface of the endothelium, the layer of cells lining the gut, and it kills off bad organisms. When the immune system becomes dysregulated by toxins, Secretory-A is not made in sufficient quantity and the "Unfriendly" organisms take over.

I can see why killing the organisms is helpful, but like antibiotics wouldn't something like CD kill off the "Friendly" organisms as well? Isn't there a better way to heal the gut and get rid of the bad organisms? What if the benefit is not from killing the parasites but from something else being removed from the gut?


If 80% of the immune system is in the gut, common sense would dictate that killing the gut and the microbiome there is a horrible idea - and of course, one would risk going to jail for knowing trying to slowly poison your child with CD/MMS in dosages that far exceed safety guideline (granted a lot of meds are equally toxic but at least have a doctor supervising the dosage).

Also as few studies have repeatedly shown, it is not what is BAD that is the gut, but more importantly, but rather what is NOT there (lack of diversity of microbiome) that differentiates ASD from controls. FMT and FMT type pills based on human strains is a much more promising approach than nuking the microbiome with the hopes of seeing dead mucosal lining/parasites and supplementing with commercial probiotics that isn't even supposed to be there in the first place (e.g. threelac) even if these make it past the stomach acid.

Josie
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:35 am

Re: ASD recovery with CD

Postby Josie » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:49 pm

I agree, parents are looking for answers in the wrong places because no one has yet been able to help them cure their child. I found this website http://secretoryiga.com/company.html.
Secretory IgA, Inc. is an early stage drug discovery and development company. The mission of this company is to develop orally available agents for the treatment of intestinal diseases mediated by bacterial toxins.Secretory IgA, Inc.’s initial product is secretory immunoglobulin A (IgA). This biological therapeutic will treat Clostridium difficile-associated disease, a type of antibiotic-resistant intestinal disease caused by Clostridium difficile bacterial toxins. Clostridium difficile-associated disease can cause diarrhea, severe cramps and high fever. This condition may result in severe outcomes, such as surgical removal of the colon and death, especially in elderly patients and patients with compromised immune systems.

The secretory IgA will be administered by mouth and will pass to the colon, which is the site of the toxin production and tissue damage. In the colon, the secretory IgA will neutralize the bacterial toxins and thereby disrupt pathways leading to the patient’s disease.

Secretory IgA is expected to be safe and is similar in mode of action to other antibody treatments that are administered by injection or infusion. Secretory IgA, Inc. will design, develop and test these orally administered IgA antibodies.

Secretory IgA, Inc. is located in Ann Arbor, MI, USA.
. What do you think of this?
Last edited by Josie on Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

makingitpossible
Posts: 1260
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:25 am

Re: ASD recovery with CD

Postby makingitpossible » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:09 pm

Twinboysmom wrote:
Nicolerene77 wrote:I have speculated on this forum more than once that what parents were seeing was mucus or mucus that sheds from the colon during injury. I took care of a patient in the ICU 2 weeks ago that had an emergency surgery because part of his intestines essentially died (we call it dead gut). Two days after the surgery he had handfuls of these "wormy" looking mucus coming out of his colostomy. Surgeon said it was mucus from his colon being shed from injury. Looked a lot like what the MMS cult posts cin out of their children. I truly believe that this product can be dangerous and harmful to the GI system.


That is really upsetting to me. I feel like I did some iffy supplements with my daughter that made her worse trying to kill everything that probably wasn't really there anyway.
I don't think she has good flora but I don't think (or at least in our experience it wasn't) it is great to assume killing everything is the right approach (especially without binders) and given the fact that the right probiotics aren't on the market to rebuild it.
If you want to oxidize for whatever reason high dose IV or liposomal vitamin C will do it (not sure if that is really what we want though).
OMG we have all turned into Winnie's.


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