In case we had thought the eugenics movement had died...

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livsparents
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:29 pm

In case we had thought the eugenics movement had died...

Postby livsparents » Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:22 pm

I guess we have had a first-hand lesson, but just to underline the point:

http://www.autistics.org/library/thenandnow.html#then
Bill
Aly 19;Dillan 16;Jason 14
Liv 11 ASD
Grace 9 PDD

and Linda

respect
Posts: 2402
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:52 am

Postby respect » Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:11 am

Hmm, i dont know who is behind "FightingAutism", however, there is a clear difference between the eugenics "movement" and those who still carry its can today and what "FightingAutism" appear to be doing, namely funding research and trying to provide first class treatment of autism.

I see the autism clock and the "cost" of autism as an illustration of a huge "problem" that no one is willing to do anything about. If it was a clock for "cancer" would autistics.org take it up the same way?

The "cost" of autism illustrated via the clock, is not in services for children but for individuals during their lifetime. No where in the website does it say that parents should stop having children, if they suspect their child may be autistic.

I think its more a wake up call to the fact that autism is growing, and there is very little being done about it, and yeah, its costly.

Now to some red neck trailer trash out there who has an affinity for Combat 18, I can see they might make a connection to eugenics.

But i certainly didnt see it that way. Maybe it is though, maybe its a subtle subconscious thing that the clock is trying to convey. I would like to know who is behind "FightingAutism" though.

anyone know?

williams_dad
Posts: 2964
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:47 am

Postby williams_dad » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:44 am

I have been concerned about this sort of thing for some time now

I'm probably rambling a bit
as I'm in a hurry

but have a look at this guy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Cattell
father of the Cattell range of IQ tests
now read this about his beliefs
http://www.ferris.edu/isar/bios/Cattell/genetica.htm

this is one scary guy

but what worries me
is the increasing call for IQ testing of autistics

here in Western Australia
you can't now get an autism diagnosis
with an IQ test showing below average IQ
or mental retardation as you Americans put it

so what is the point of all this

and why the race to find a genetic reason for autism

I see no other end in sight than an expectant mother
being offered a test
similar to the ones for Downs syndrome
and the offer of termination
as they politely put it

I personally find this abhorrent

Friends of ours went through months of anguish
when it was found they were going to have a Downs baby
they carried on with the pregnancy
and yes the daughter was Downs
has it been hard work - you bet
but they wouldn't swap her for anything

We are of the same mind with William
it is hard work
but I wouldn't swap him for anything
and when they offer us the tests for various genetic
problems during pregnancy we say No thanks

WD
http://spectrumsleuth.fr.yuku.com/forums/11/General/General

livsparents
Posts: 1629
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:29 pm

Postby livsparents » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:12 am

I grapple with the possibility that there may come a day when autism can be identified. That they give the parents the 'opportunity to opt out' of an autistic child, to use a eugenism. Something about that disturbs me.

The Downs Syndrome test never bothered me until we had Liv. So, we as a society do not have any trouble selectively choosing to not procreate because of intelligence. Even if some Downs people may be as intelligent as you or I.

Now take it a step further with autism and consider that these children may be able to lead normal lives and be MORE intelligent. So we are taking the 'convenience' factor a step further.

I am not anti-abortion by any stretch of the imagination, I just have trouble having autism being classified as this complete tragedy like Downs (I even have trouble classifying Downs as a complete tragedy at this point). They need to figure out who consists this 1 in 150, what each subgroup means, and what will become of this 'autistic generation' (how will they function as adults with all these interventions).

It's only a short trip from fundraising based on the 'tragedy' of autism, to the control of autistic births through the use of testing and propaganda to convince people that they are better dead (nonexistent) than autistic.


Sorry, this all started as a filppant response to the David situation, didn't mean to get into this whole area, but we all need to face it....probably should put a blog together to get it out of my head...
Bill
Aly 19;Dillan 16;Jason 14
Liv 11 ASD
Grace 9 PDD

and Linda

livsparents
Posts: 1629
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:29 pm

Postby livsparents » Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:07 pm

Bill
Aly 19;Dillan 16;Jason 14
Liv 11 ASD
Grace 9 PDD

and Linda

williams_dad
Posts: 2964
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:47 am

Postby williams_dad » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:06 pm

Interesting thoughts....

I won't get all sappy and cutsy on you; if society needs reminding of their duty to all of its members, then you can find me and mine in a cave somewhere...


you might find me in the cave next door


WD
http://spectrumsleuth.fr.yuku.com/forums/11/General/General

livsparents
Posts: 1629
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:29 pm

Postby livsparents » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:32 pm

William's dad, up late or up early? I can never figure the time difference, I always figure AROUND 12 hours so plus or minus a couple could make it danged early morning in late winter there...

Since I don't normally orbit with 'normal' people, I don't have a feeling on how people who are not impacted by special need kids feel about funding being funneled to us 'burdens on society'. Are there any families LEFT that are not impacted by autism and/or special needs kids?
Bill
Aly 19;Dillan 16;Jason 14
Liv 11 ASD
Grace 9 PDD

and Linda

williams_dad
Posts: 2964
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:47 am

Postby williams_dad » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:46 am

Hi Bill

livsparents wrote:William's dad, up late or up early? I can never figure the time difference, I always figure AROUND 12 hours so plus or minus a couple could make it danged early morning in late winter there...


Actually local time here is exactly 12 hrs difference to board time, so 7 pm Board ( forum ) time is 7 am Western Australian standard time.

Since I don't normally orbit with 'normal' people, I don't have a feeling on how people who are not impacted by special need kids feel about funding being funneled to us 'burdens on society'. Are there any families LEFT that are not impacted by autism and/or special needs kids?


well I'm not sure about that, I thought the rate for ASD in Australia was somewhere between 1 in 100 to 1 in 150 but I saw a comment yesterday that it is 1 in 45, whoa ... that's over 2%. I don't know how true it is and I'm looking into it. But add Downs and all the other special needs - one has to ask - what is normal ? Is there any such thing as neuro-typical ?

An interesting sci-fi book on this is
The Chrysalids by John Wyndham
Amazon link
read it as a kid at high school
seems more relevant now than then


regards
WD
http://spectrumsleuth.fr.yuku.com/forums/11/General/General


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