A way to break down oxalates without vsl #3

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mommyjen
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A way to break down oxalates without vsl #3

Postby mommyjen » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:31 pm

This is from the lady that runs vitamin k group:

"make...carrot-apple-cabbage juice about twice a week. Oxalobacter formigenes,
the bacteria that breaks down oxalate the best, lives on cabbage and by juicing
cabbage leaves you can implant it into [the] colon. It's much better at
degrading oxalate than VSL#3 is. The oral Epsom salts flushes oxalate out of
the cells; the body deposits it into the intestines for disposal; and the
cabbage bacteria break it down. It's a neat, clean solution to the oxalate
issue – there's absolutely no need whatsoever to go on a low-oxalate diet."
"For four of us I juice 16 carrots, 4 apples, and 1/2 to 1 head cabbage
depending on its size. Do this twice a week, and then on 1 or 2 other days make
the juice but without the cabbage. For most kids the Oxalobacter formigenes
should implant after 2 or 3 rounds, but for kids with very bad dysbiosis it may
take repeated juicing to get the Oxalobacter to implant.
"We still eat a lot of VSL#3 yogurt (because I love goat milk yogurt) but you
don't need to use VSL#3 as a supplement for oxalate control."

She said it has to be unfermented as the acidity is a problem for the oxalabacter species. FYI.

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JeniB
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Re: A way to break down oxalates without vsl #3

Postby JeniB » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:17 am

you also have to get rid of the reason that calcium is forming crystals to begin with. Make sure your body is absorbing calcium. If you have lead or aluminum, you will not absorb calcium or magnesium properly. if you live in a moldy home or school, you'll have lots of oxalate producing molds in your gut too. I can see where this helps, but doesn't solve the problem as to WHY. This is why chelation helps so many. It's the calcium/magnesium not going where it's supposed to.

another reason the body will not absorb calcium is a viral reason. the virus eats up lysine the amino acid that also controls calcium. I imagine those with high oxalates have a viral issue too.

if you stay in a moldy home or not deal with the metals, you'll be juicing cabbage for a long time. Great info on helping with this issue though.

Jen
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mommyjen
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Re: A way to break down oxalates without vsl #3

Postby mommyjen » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:42 am

Part of the vitamin k protocol is to give vitamin k2 to move the calcium where it belongs. I know practically everyone here is on the chelation and homeopathy bandwagon at the moment but hopefully this helps some people who need it. Plus building up our bodies own bacteria any way possible is a good thing.

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cadalyst
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Re: A way to break down oxalates without vsl #3

Postby cadalyst » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:39 pm

Note that Susan Owens from the Trying low oxalates group dismissed this idea of beneficial Oxalobacter formigenes on cabbage (that you buy from the store).

From: Milton J. Allison, Affiliate Prof. Dept. of Animal Science, Iowa State University
The only known natural habitats for the oxalate-degrading bacterium,
Oxalobacter formigenes, are anaerobic portions of the gastrointestinal
tract (rumen, or cecum and colon) of humans and various herbivores and
also anaerobic sediments of aquatic systems. O. formigenes is a strict
anaerobe. This means that it will not survive for long and will not grow
on plant or soil surfaces exposed to air. Habitats for O. formigenes are
also limited because it has an absolute requirement for oxalate as a
growth substrate. If viable O. formigenes cells are found on vegetation,
I believe that the most probable explanation would be that the vegetation
was contaminated with fecal material.

Thus, it might work if you juice cabbage picked straight from the farm (where farm animals freely roam) and do not wash the cabbage. However, it isn't something that I would recommend.

JeniB
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Re: A way to break down oxalates without vsl #3

Postby JeniB » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:41 pm

the interior of the cabbage may be the place that it is living. I wonder where the source of info comes from for this type of bacteria? it would make sense that it's possible it could be protected from air in the interior of the cabbage in it's leafy inside. I do know that you must have cabbage in most fermented veggies for the fermentation to even work. All sides are valid and I certainly would consider adding juiced cabbage to help just as you said, great way of adding more beneficial bacteria. I just wanted to mention that the cause also needs to be treated, which I didn't address for 2 straight years for my own son and I wish someone had told me to chelate back then instead of putting all my eggs into the "diet" basket. that's all I was trying to say.

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mommyjen
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Re: A way to break down oxalates without vsl #3

Postby mommyjen » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:24 pm

Well here is something I didn't understand about, that I was thinking about last night. They were talking about it couldn't be fermented because of acidity, yet the stomach is acidic. I haven't really analyzed what they said about it though because I don't think oxalates are a huge issue for all our kids. Lily's last two oats were low on oxalates after we started the SCD so I think it is one of those things that is not an issue for every child. However, we have started daily juicing for my daughter with a green, carrot, and apple.

Sorry JeniB, I didn't mean to sound like I am coming down on you. I just know, there are people who chelate with the Cutler method and still don't get very far as they would like. My intention is not the knock that down, but there may be things we don't know completely about yet as to reasons why some of these things are working. It may not just be because metals are being drawn out. The DMSA may also be doing something else entirely as well.

Oh and btw- thanks Cadylst- although I am not sure if I can 100% believe each person either way. I still think there is a lot, especially about bacteria, that we don't have a good understanding about. What I do know is that juicing is really good for my daughter!

Mommy to:
7 yr old girl
6 yr old girl with ASD
3 yr old girl
New Baby boy
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